HARDtalk: “This was a pre-planned attack and I was their target” —Akbar Bugti, chief of Jamhoori Watan Party
* We were invited some months ago to join PONM
* Everybody who can indulges in some form of authoritarianism
* There’s no feudalism in Balochistan
* No great or fine things happened during my governorship
* I only discussed Dera Bugti and Sui matters with Shujaat and Mushahid
* They tried to discuss all Balochistan matters but I refused
* Sardari is not a system or a culture
The situation in Sui and Dera Bugti is quite different from what it was a few
months ago. A visit to Balochistan’s strongman Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti this
weekend presented a stark contrast to what one could witness there following
skirmishes between Bugti tribesmen and security forces in February. At present,
there aren’t any security forces’ or Bugti checkposts between Sui and Dera Bugti.
Despite the personal losses he has suffered and his age, Nawab Bugti is in good
shape. He meets a large number of people daily. These days the visitors include
those who have been coming to condole the death of his younger brother Ahmed
Nawaz Bugti. A clear-minded Bugti speaks for hours at a stretch. On Saturday he
spoke with Daily Times’ Karachi Resident Editor Sarfaraz Ahmed at his
Dera Bugti residence. Excerpts of the interview follow:
Daily Times: A few months ago, you floated the idea of forming a single
Baloch nationalist party, asking all Baloch parties to merge. The proposal did
not receive a positive response, particularly from the four-party alliance that
your Jamhoori Watan Party belongs to. Why?
Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti: You are quite right. We had proposed that there is a
dire need for a single Baloch nationalist party. All that they [Baloch] have
been undergoing, and all that they have been losing, [a single party] should
cater to that and fulfil their needs. For which the existing Baloch parties —
nationalist parties, or so-called nationalist parties or pseudo-nationalist
parties — should merge into a single nationalist party. We offered to be the
first to do away with our party if others also agreed.
Up to now, Sardar Attaullah Khan Mengal, for example, has said that the idea is
good but impractical. Dr Abdul Hayee has also said that it is a very good idea
and then laughed it off. And Nawab Khair Bux Marri has said nothing. We can
guess that he, too, is not very enthusiastic. I was talking about the parties in
the four-party alliance.
Outside the alliance, there are other smaller parties. They have welcomed the
idea. They have offered to do away with their own identities and merge in this
proposed party. Some Baloch Student Organisation factions have announced their
readiness to merge.
The silent majority of the Baloch also seems to be in favour of it. But they
have always been quiet. They probably have no strong say in the decision-making
of their political parties.
As far as our major political parties are concerned, it has taken them years to
establish a certain identity and line of thinking etc. Perhaps they are
reluctant to do away with their identity for a single party, not knowing what
the latter’s final programme would be.
DT: Why didn’t you provide a programme?
NAKB: We could do that. But we have not done it intentionally because we
could have been accused of forwarding our personal agenda, our party’s agenda or
our personal views. We have left it to all those who are interested. They will
sit together and thrash out the modalities. They will take the final decision by
consensus on what should be the programme — political or economic or social and
all that. They should not look to us and they should not accuse us of advancing
our own programme or our own ideas.
DT: Doesn’t this suggest that mistrust exists among Baloch leaders? Secondly;
there are parties, such as Sardar Mengal’s and Dr Hayee’s, that are already part
of the broad-based nationalists’ alliance, PONM, and may have plausible reasons
for rejecting your single party proposal.
NAKB: There have been misgivings and mistrust. Over the years, mistrust has
built up between some components, some Baloch parties, organisations or factions.
Then of course, some Baloch parties (Sardar Ataullah Mengal’s, Dr Hayee’s
parties) and Pakhtoonkhwa have joined PONM.
We, too, were invited some months ago to join PONM. When we studied their
programme, we found that it doesn’t cover Baloch needs and requirements. That is
why we declined to be part of PONM. They think they cover all Baloch needs; but
we don’t think so. Our point of view has been proven correct in the recent past.
But this is PONM’s internal matter. How they thrash it out is their concern. We
don’t want to criticise them over and over again.
DT: You are talking about the misunderstanding and mistrust among the Baloch
and Baloch leaders. Don’t you think that Nawab Akbar Bugti is an extremely
difficult person; authoritarian and very difficult to deal with? How do you
respond to this?
NAKB: We are all difficult in our own ways. And we are all somewhat
authoritarian. That’s human nature. Everybody indulges in some form of
authoritarianism if he or she can. So this is something natural. If you were
given the chance you could be worse than I am or somebody else is.
DT: You are seen as an undemocratic individual with a feudal mindset who
doesn’t want to share power with anyone.
NAKB: You have talked of three different things. There’s no feudalism in
Balochistan. We are in the tribal stage. Punjab is full of feudalism and you can
find some in Sindh. In Balochistan so far, we have neither entered nor bypassed
that stage. Here it is tribalism and the Sardari part of that system.
DT: But the Sardari system is also criticised?
NAKB: People say there’s a Sardari system. There’s no Sardari system or
culture. Sardari is just part and parcel of tribalism. As long as there is a
tribe and there’s tribalism, the sardar, the wadera, the moatbar, the moqaddam,
the tikri, the safaidwish are there. When it is over, all these will disappear.
In Punjab, you have the Sardari system in a different form. You are Chaudhrys;
you are big Chaudhrys or lesser ones. You are Rajas, you are Majas and Pajas,
and God knows what else. Similarly, in Sindh... Leave alone that. We are a
backward area. Go to Great Britain — though now it’s minor Britain. There you
have McDonalds, MacGwayres, MacLeods, MacGregrians, Mac this, Mac that...
different tribes in Scotland. They have their colours, their own tartans, music.
And even today, there’s the clan chief. It’s there along with democracy in the
most advanced nations in the world.
DT: As a Sardar, are you open to dissent?
NAKB: What dissent?
DT: Let’s put it this way. You do not allow anybody from your tribe to have
or express opinions different from yours. He would never dare raise a dissenting
voice?
NAKB: He’s killed immediately? I am asking you (chuckling). You have not
completed your sentence. You wanted to say perhaps that if he raises a voice of
dissent he’s killed.
DT: Well, not killed. He’s ostracised from the community as a first step...
or something.
NAKB: Well, when you sit in katchehries you listen to people’s opinion... on
important matters. Everybody gives his opinion. Then a consensus is built.
DT: Don’t you think that your governorship of Balochistan is a stigma on your
political career?
NAKB: Not necessarily.
DT: An army operation was launched in Balochistan during your governorship.
NAKB: When Zulfikar Ali Bhutto launched the army operation in Balochistan,
shortly thereafter I left. I resigned. When ghamsan ki larai (fierce skirmishes)
started, I left. The Khan of Qalat was the governor during that period. I was
the governor in 1973. On December 31, 1973, I left. If you study the record, you
can see the number of casualties ... [and the pattern].
DT: Are you trying to absolve yourself?
NAKB: No, I am not absolving myself from some of the responsibility (emphatically).
I am not absolving myself. I was governor. You can’t change history. You can’t
belie history. I don’t say I did something great or something fine. No great or
fine things happened during that period.
DT: JWP is a key component of ARD in which you had played a responsible and
disciplined role until your senator resigned from the parliament citing reasons
related to Balochistan situation. Your party — or you — took this decision
unilaterally; without taking the other ARD components into confidence.
NAKB: It is a party matter, not ARD [matter]. We have resigned from the
Senate. But we are still part of ARD. Only three ARD components, the Muslim
League-N, the People’s Party and the JWP have representation in the parliament.
The rest don’t. For the sake of argument, if we decide to quit the assemblies we
are still part of ARD, like the others who have no representation in the
parliament.
DT: Shujaat Hussain and Mushahid Hussain have been making visit after visit
to Dera Bugti to reach an understanding with you.
NAKB: Which meetings are you talking about? This year’s, or last year’s?
DT: After the February killings?
NAKB: Well, they came and contacted me purely on these [Sui and Dera Bugti]
matters. But they also broached all Balochistan matters. I said I could not
speak on behalf of Balochistan and all Balochistan matters. I have no mandate.
They should talk to other parties, other leaders. Our talks were limited to
Bugti matters: the killings of Bugtis; people who had been killed, their homes
and businesses destroyed.
It did not concern any other matter. Sardar Ataullah Mengal has said in your
interview (HARDtalk, Daily Times, May 28, 2005) I didn’t inform them about what
transpired between myself and Chaudhry Shujaat. I want to assure him that
nothing transpired except in matters in which probably they had no interest. I
want to reassure them again that they tried to discuss all Balochistan matters.
“Muzakarat” (negotiations). But I refused.
Since it was purely our own matter, it is not necessary to make a report to this
and that.
DT: So you didn’t discuss anything with them beyond Sui and Dera Bugti
matters?
NAKB: I didn’t discuss all Balochistan matters till the last meeting that
took place last month. They wanted to discuss package “mackage”. I told them,
take your package to rest of Balochistan.
DT: Have the talks that you have held about your own matters with Chaudhry
Shujaat and Mushahid Husain yielded any results?
NAKB: Nothing in particular, except that there was a ceasefire and 16 FC
morchas and pickets were removed along with ours. That is the most.
DT: Would you like to repeat what you said just a little while ago to
Zulfikar Khosa of PML-N Punjab (who had come to Dera Bugti to condole) about
what happened in Dera Bugti when clashes broke out between security forces and
Bugti tribesmen?
NAKB: It was a pre-planned attack [by the security forces] and I was their
target. They wanted to knock me out...
I was in my bedroom having my breakfast. It was around 10 in the morning. There
was firing from a distance. I asked my servant to find out what was happening. I
got dressed. One or two shells started falling. As I went out towards my
kutchehry, shells fell to my right and left all along. When I entered my
kutchehry, big shells started falling around us. I shifted to a small room. It
was hit by a shell; wounding six people. We moved to another place, but a shell
hit three people who were 10 feet away from me, killing them and wounding four,
including my secretary. The shells kept falling.
Over 60 people were killed and hundred or so were wounded, including 33 Hindus.
Now this number has gone up to 34 with the death of another Hindu woman who had
been wounded.
The second part of this interview will be published on Friday, July 15
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_14-7-2005_pg3_5